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View Full Version : closed, anonymous p2p - the future of filesharing?

2005-01-01, 15:38
With all the RIAA lawsuits going on and recent news of some websites that hosted BitTorrent .torrent files selling out or shutting down, some people feel that the only hope and future of p2p filesharing lies in the usage of networks which use proxying and encrypting, and ones in which the identity of the users is fully anonymous. These closed networks tend to be inefficient in some manner, because the proxying creates extra bandwidth, the encryption produces extra straining on a computer's processor, or the networks tend to be closed off to the public, limiting selection amongst a small group of trusted friends. Examples of such programs are ones like WASTE, MUTE, or Freenet. Some people call such networks "darknets", but I refrain from using that term because its definition varies depending on who is using it.

Real p2p filesharing to me is an international community of people who are bound together by a common interest in the music they share. It is a bond which transcends borders and laws. It is a community of people connected by way of digital means, and it is as meaningful as any other community that people could be members of. Because of the international scope of it, p2p filesharing is to be regarded as a social movement and given religious and cultural protections as well as exemptions from copyright law.

The problem with closed, anonymous networks is that they go against the concept of community and the fraternity that exists between all p2p filesharers. In their closed secretive manner their participants act in a guilty manner no different from people trading child pornography. Their community lacks credibility because of its secret nature, and because of anonymity, there really is no community to speak of. A community which resorts to private communications is no community at all, and the idea of an "anonymous community" is oxymoronic. Those who prefer the sanctuary of a small incestuous private group lack credibility in what they stand for. For people who have lost their fighting spirit and grown weary and impotent, ready to retire from the real p2p filesharing community, the closed network is their best refuge. They are cowards dying a thousand deaths, as they desparately try to do what they can to go underground and avoid the RIAA.

Closed networks are very limited in their selection of material. The closed networks are not diverse enough to be called libraries. If it is not a digital library, then it can not be called real p2p filesharing.

There are the generations of p2p: first generation p2p, second generation p2p, and third generation p2p. First generation p2p networks are centralized servers such as Napster (shut down 2001) or Soulseek (still running), second generation networks are ones that are decentralized such as Gnutella, FastTrack, or WinMX. Is third generation then the closed anonymous ones? Well it depends on who you ask. According to the common definition, such as the definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer-to-peer#Generational_classification_of_peer-to-peer_networks) at Wikipedia, it is. But as I see it, if third generation p2p is defined as the anonymous closed ones, then there will be no third generation of p2p that will succeed. It is because third generation as defined that way, would not provide everything that second generation could provide, and therefore couldn't replace it. Instead these closed networks are just tools to be used in addition to p2p filesharing, but are not to be thought of as replacements of the community and size of a real p2p filesharing network. To me something can only be called the next generation of p2p filesharing if it can replace the current generation, and surpass it in features and abilities.

Those of you awaiting for the next generation of p2p software are waiting for the wrong thing. The revolutionary developments in p2p filesharing will not lie in the development of software, but rather in the pursuit and advocacy of the p2p filesharing community as a social and ideological movement.

2005-01-01, 23:13
i agree and disppointedly so....

it seems that everything has gone underground and the only way to participate is to be in the click

i started to make a similar speech in another thread i saw recently, where someone was touting our victory by stateing we're now sharing privately....but was too lazy to do so...

only when it's open and available to the world is it really p2p

2005-01-02, 00:29
i started to make a similar speech in another thread i saw recently, where someone was touting our victory by stateing we're now sharing privately....but was too lazy to do so...

Let me clarify. What I was trying to state in my previous post was that I think the idea of somehow turning off the faucet on mp3 is over. That's what I was discussing - the idea that an enormous amount of, at least America and England's music from the last 30 years, is now digitized and in mp3 format (on open, duplicateable format) all over the place. In that way, the record companies can never win. How it gets shared from there was not really my point, my point was it's all out there now, and it certainly will get shared. I was not saying, however, that me going over to my friends house is the desired future of mp3 sharing.

As for anonymous, closed, "invite only" networks, I think they are for gigantic pussies, as I've already stated in gaz's clubhouse. I also agree with Mr. eclectica that they are not a step toward the goal we should really be trying to reach and in fact may be a step away by taking material out of "Joe Public's" reach.

2005-01-02, 00:57
they are not a step toward the goal we should really be trying to reach and in fact may be a step away by taking material out of "Joe Public's" reachwe agree

putting p2p in the shadows is, imo, a form of self imposed prohibition

2005-01-02, 17:23
There's a thread over at P2P Consortium that got me thinking about all of this here (http://www.p2pconsortium.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1348).

assorted, that post you made December 16th/17th at P2P-Zone was a good one, but unfortunately it became locked away in that forum's darknet, so I'm going to repost it here for the public to read:

(source: postid 226144 (http://www.p2p-zone.com/underground/showpost.php?p=226144))

I was stopping by looking for info on what's going on with torrent tracking sites. Seems a lot of people are going to be in a lot of pain really soon. This forum (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/swapping) has some good threads on all the different sites going down so far. Plus, Slyck is giving a 404, the precise place I would go to find out stuff. What's up with that? (EDIT - Slyck is fine. I think they're just rather busy right now)

In an aside, whenever people get arrested or in legal trouble for helping fight copyrights and really change the way we live in the world, I think of this place and get very angry. Most of you are the biggest bunch of pussies I've ever encountered on the internet. You exist on a forum about file trading where the owners won't let people link to warez sites or even porn. Let me say it again, you are gigantic, fucking pussies. When you do discuss software, it's something like Waste so you can properly hide away from the rest of the world, making the spreading of culture and knowledge for free an elite excercise in "who you know" instead of being something any teenager in Kansas can get hooked up with immediately.

Sure, most people who are on p2p are doing it to get the latest eminem and action movies, and that's pretty much shit. But underneath, there's a lot of good going on when I can get my hands on a shitload of books, a fantastic amount of rare music, video files that governments try to censor, and just plain and pure knowledge and culture. For free. No signup or being upper class necassary.

And what do you people here do to help this? Absolutely fucking nothing. At least on the Napster Software forums, those of us who initially showed up their did so to help people get unbanned, then stayed to help people to learn how to do this really neat and cool thing that was developing. What do you people do? Aside from being, that is, (wait for it...) gigantic fucking pussies.

There's people going to jail and who are going to be sued and who are going to be in a whole lot of hurt today and tomorrow and for months from now. Some might even be brave (and rich) enough to fight for what's right and try not to settle. What are you doing to do to help this cause? What are you risking? Oh, outside of arguing left and right politics with jackasses? Have any of you ever even given any money to anything worthwhile like the EFF, as opposed to just giving gaz money to line his pockets? Losers!

Of course, Mr. Spratts and napho are excluded from this rant. You 2 are cool and quite helpful. hehe.

Like I said, this stuff makes me angry. Napster assembled a really cool bunch of people. And you fuckheads totally blew it.