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2003-07-09, 05:55
The troops are just following orders. It doesn't matter whether we support them or not. The people who really need the support are not the troops, but the policy makers. They are the ones who give the orders and spin up the propaganda which causes us to like the wars we get involved in. If you are a soldier, you have either the choice of going into battle thinking it's a good thing, or going into battle doubting the integrity of your mission. Maybe when people say "support the troops", it is so that those troops won't doubt the integrity of their mission. It is kind of like telling a person who is dying, all the things he wants to hear, so that he may rest in peace. What good would it do for the soldiers to doubt their own mission? Theirs is not to reason why; theirs is but to do or die.

In the real sense of the word, supporting of the troops would mean keeping them out of harm's way. But its sense has become corrupted, and now when people say "support the troops", it means willingly placing them in many dangerous situations.

Armchair warriors and wannabe soldiers are the ones who are supporting the troops right now. They believe in deploying them in all the dangerous and exciting places. There is a rush that an armchair warrior feels, that is similar to the couch potato slob who enjoys the thrill of a sports game. Through the conquests of others, these folks live vicariously. Thus they support the troops.

No one has been a better supporter of the troops than president Bush. Bush is our valiant hero, who on 9-11 fled to unknown parts for several hours. And recently, he was so courageous as to fly six miles high over Iraq while his troops were on the ground. Contrast that to Tony Blair, who actually visited Iraq.

The policymakers and general public who support the troops are out of harm's way, and they and their loved ones shall sleep well tonight.

2003-07-14, 10:51
A few days ago George Tenet, the head of the CIA, took responsibility for a lie that was in George Bush's January 2003 speech. In the speech Bush claimed that the Iraqis were trying to buy Uranium from Niger. It is amazing to me that Bush himself doesn't take responsibility for his own lies but instead tries to pin it on someone else. Not only is he a coward, but he doesn't take responsibility for his own mistakes. What he is saying, is that he's just there to read the script of the speech, and the fact that lies are uttered from his mouth, does not make him a liar, because he didn't write the speech.

2003-07-15, 00:21
Am I supposed to cover for U ?

2003-11-02, 14:33
"And to the American soldiers in Iraq I say, now that all the lies have been exposed and the greatest liar has been revealed, your stay on Iraq’s land is compounding the oppression and is a great folly.

It shows you are selling your lives for the lives of others. And you are spilling your blood to swell the bank accounts of the White House gang and their fellow arms dealers and the proprietors of great companies. And the greatest folly in life is to sell your life for the lives of others."

-Osama bin Laden

2003-11-03, 01:15
where'd you see that Bin Laden quote to?

2003-11-03, 03:54
That bin Laden quote comes a tape that was released October 18. The text of that is found in this thread (http://3-3-3.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148) and also from Aljazeera (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8E8EA580-943C-4FBF-9ABD-21B47627FECD.htm).

2004-06-04, 00:49
They extended the tour of duty for active duty soldiers. Army Reserves and National Guard are now working full time. They took people out of the IRR and from Korea as well to send them to Iraq.

I don't know how the Army gets away with extending the duty of soldiers when on the other hand if a soldier decides to leave early they call it AWOL and send the dude to military jail.

Every single soldier should be withdrawn from Iraq as soon as possible, rather than wait as lame Kerry says, "to finish the job". These dudes aren't dying for their country's defense.

The only reason soldiers aren't defecting in droves is through peer pressure. They know that if they quit their buddies are still over there fighting and that is what keeps them there. A lot of them just kill themselves instead because that is the only honorable way that they see out of their situation.

photo gallery of some of the war dead or injured (http://thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/)

2004-06-04, 01:08
I hope some day after Bush has left the White House that a gang of angry ex-soldiers goes and hunts down all of the corrupt members of the White House and slaughter them all, to give them what they deserve. You saw how ex-soldier Timothy McVeigh was angry at the Federal government after the first Iraq War. Well you can be sure there will be a lot more pissed-off soldiers after this Iraq war.


2004-06-04, 06:47
i hope he gets in again
it will be fall of the american empire
that might not sound nice to americans but if u know much about the world since world war 2 u would agree
the only difference is how

2004-06-25, 03:29
The other day I noticed the American flag was at half staff at many places, and I found out it was due to Reagan's recent death. Something that I think is disproportionate is the amount of public mourning that has been given to him. You have soldiers dying every day in Iraq and they barely get honored or mentioned. Why is it that they are so easily forgotten? They are the ones who should get a flag lowered at half staff, not an ex-president who lived a full life and died of natural causes. Read here (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/06/20040606-1.html) and you will see that Bush ordered the flag to be flown at half staff for a period of 30 days. Our priorities are wrong.

Also, I think it is cowardly of the US government to oppose the releasing of photos of coffins (http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/) of dead members of the military. These soldiers die, and to make matters worse the realities of their sacrifices are sanitized and not even fully acknowledged by their government.

2004-06-25, 04:27
yeah its funny that the one that make decisions in this world do not take responsibility and get all the honour and the ones that take the responsibility get none
the ones that make the effort (the real efforts) in this world dont ever reap the rewards as they should
it so unequal
the thing about supporting troops i think is fine but the problem is they shouldnt be there to fucking start with
the letter from niger was forged
it has been proved
now who would want to make something up like that up?
and the business links between the Bush and Bin Laden families........
the 80's
the cold war
the soviets
the mujahadeen
its all a nasty little pussle when put together
Saudia Arabia are said to have known that Bin Laden was operating and changed enemy - to the U.S.A.
and were funding them well after the Afganistan operations
maybe it's all a mistake :D
im sure what conspiracy theories are made of
MODERN history is always fun :p

2005-08-14, 04:27
source (http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/aug05/348021.asp)

Why I'm camping out in Crawford, Texas
Last Updated: Aug. 13, 2005

I will never, ever forget the night of April 4, 2004, when I found out that my son Casey had been killed in Iraq.

I will also never forget the day when we buried my sweet boy, my oldest son. If I live to be a very old lady and forget everything else, I will never forget when the general handed me the folded flag that had lain on Casey's coffin, as his brother and sisters, standing behind me, sobbed.

I think of Casey every day as I wait outside President Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, determined to meet with him.

I want to let the president know that I feel he recklessly endangered the life of my son by sending our troops to attack and occupy a country that was no imminent threat to the United States.

And I want to let him know that millions of Americans believe that the best thing we can do - for our own security, for our soldiers and for the Iraqi people - is to bring the U.S. troops home from Iraq now.

Just because it's too late for Casey and the Sheehan family, why would we want another innocent life taken in the name of this ever-changing and unwinnable mission in Iraq?

I did get to meet with Bush two and a half months after my son was killed, but I never got to say any of these things to him. I was in deep shock and grief at the time, and all I wanted to do was to show him pictures of Casey and tell him what a wonderful man our son was.

But today, things are very different. My shock has worn off, and now I've got a lot of anger along with my grief.

I'm angry because every reason the Bush administration gave for the invasion of Iraq has been shown to be false.

The 9-11 commission's report concluded there was no link between Iraq and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The weapons inspectors gave up searching for weapons of mass destruction and wrote in the Duelfer report that there were none to be found.

From the Downing Street memo, we learned that the Bush administration "fixed" intelligence to justify the Iraq invasion.

And after every supposed milestone in Iraq - the capture of Saddam Hussein, the transition to Iraqi rule and most recently the Iraq election - things just don't get better. U.S. soldiers and Iraqis continue to be killed in greater and greater numbers, the cost of the war skyrockets and there's no end in sight.

After 30 U.S. troops were killed in one week recently, the president reiterated his pledge to complete the mission of our fallen soldiers. But that mission originally was to protect the U.S. from a lethal attack by Hussein - with weapons it turns out he did not have.

Anyway, I don't want the president to use Casey's memory to justify continuing this war, which will end up only needlessly killing more wonderful young men like him.

Many people have been streaming in to Crawford to support my vigil and convince the president to listen to the people who want an end to this war. We are camping out in a drainage ditch, in 100-degree weather, but it's worth it.

If and when I do meet with the president this time, it will be for all of the Gold Star Families for Peace who lost children in this war, for all of the mothers and fathers and husbands and wives who are grieving and who want to tell the president to end this devastating war.

No one else, not one more mom, should have to lose her son in Iraq.

source (http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/aug05/348021.asp)

2005-08-23, 11:10
nice work E

a reason why Australia at least will not bring out troops is because they have people from corporations there making money

we will never win this fight

they get satisfaction and motivation and justification from us fighting back

but we do not have to be inactive

we can move towards self sustainment without relying on corporations to live

simple as that
just a little peace love and understanding are needed

2005-11-01, 03:59
Someone today at my work told me that his brother was in the military for six years and got out recently without having gone to Iraq. His brother had gotten a DWI (driving while intoxicated) outside the base a few years ago while still working for the military, and had his New York state driving license revoked. At the time his family thought it was a bad thing, and he was no longer driving the trucks in the unit but instead assigned to other work around the base. His unit was deployed and sent to Iraq while he was left behind, because he couldn't drive the trucks. So what at first seemed like a bad thing, had ended up being a good thing.

He was eventually given an honorable discharge from the Army.

The guy at my work said that if his brother had died in Iraq he would make sure to go and kill president Bush personally, as he would hold him responsible. I wonder how many other people are angry over that abominable war. There are 2,000 American soldiers killed so far and 15,000 injured. When relatives and friends are included that is a large amount of people that have been affected by the abominable war.

I imagine that when a soldier is given orders to deploy to Iraq it is like being given a death sentence or being told that one has a fatal disease. I think that all soldiers who get such orders should quit the military by going AWOL. What keeps them there is the solidarity they feel with the rest of the people in their units.

There is no dishonor for soldiers who quit the military, except amongst other soldiers in the same position. But for the 300 million Americans who are not required to go and die in Iraq, they have no right to pass judgement on those soldiers who have quit the military because they didn't want to go to Iraq. If there is in the future a draft with conscripts, they should draw from the same group of people who voted for Bush. That would be ideal because people would be held accountable for their actions.

One of the problems with democracy, is that while everyone is collectively responsible for the affairs of the country, no one personally can be held responsible. Perhaps the solution to better democracy would be the elimination of secret voting ballots, and instead have every vote logged so that each person is forced to take responsibility and have to answer for his position.

2005-11-12, 12:23
candidate Bush in 2000.....

The U.S. should not be in the nation-building business. We can not be expected to shed American blood and billions of dollars to police the world.

2006-10-25, 06:01
After Pat's Birthday
Posted on Oct 19, 2006
By Kevin Tillman
source (http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/)

It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we got out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.

Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman,

Kevin Tillman

2006-10-25, 14:28
Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action.

i don't believe that...it's a philosophy politicians want us to believe in order to maintain the status quo...

it should be obvious....the patriot act....the bush administration